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I can say this because I'm American: the relegation and promotion system in European soccer is dumb. And Newcastle United might be the best evidence.
An alarm sounded by League Managers' Association chief Richard Bevan that foreign owners are itching to end relegation and promotion in favor of an American-style franchise system has brought a fresh round of wailing and teeth-gnashing from commentators such as Sky Sports' Jeff Stelling, who, like many who cling to obsolete tradition, tries to mask the weakness of his argument with breathlessness.
Stripped of its shock-and-awe rhetoric, Stelling's argument is, "How many fans would still go and watch a match if it didn't matter whether their team won or lost?" Which on its face rings ridiculous to an American fan, who sees middling baseball franchises draw larger crowds than English soccer clubs while playing every night of the week for almost half the year. Or to someone like me who supports an NFL club that had nothing to play for throughout the 1970s and '80s, yet filled every seat for every game in a 60,000-seat stadium - in a town of 90,000. And is now the dominant franchise in the league, by the way.
But OK - that's America. A big country with more fans. Maybe England is different. Let's take the argument to England.
Two years ago, Newcastle United was punished for a bad season with relegation to the Championship. The club, while performing spectacularly at the gate by Championship standards, still drew approximately 5,000 fewer fans per match in that league than it would have in the Premier League. Was that good for English football? In a city with Premier-level history and support, was being in the second division much better than not having anything to play for in the first division?
Or could it have been far worse? What if the club hadn't bounced right back? What if it had foundered in its beautiful park, like Sheffield Wednesday, which now fills less than half a stadium it hasn't invested in for years? Is that good for English football? How many years of a Premier League club not having anything to play for does that represent? Or, to make an argument from the future instead of the past, what if West Ham United isn't back in the Premier League by the time it moves to its new Olympian home? Maybe that's unrealistic. But if we're banking the state of the sport on well-supported clubs like Newcastle and West Ham being promoted right back after relegation, why make it a question at all? Why relegate them in the first place?
The true speciousness of the not-having-anything-to-play-for argument lies in its assumption that promotion and relegation are the only reasons winning and losing matter. It's an especially absurd assumption in the Premier League. Because all but a handful of clubs have no hope of a title to begin with, Premier League fans take far more pride than their American counterparts in incremental gain and long-term improvement by their clubs. One element that attracted me to Newcastle United was the way its supporters obsess over every tick up and down the table, measuring their club against more than mere safety - 5under1and, for example.
Besides that, the franchise system does have a form of relegation and promotion, and one that's more effective in generating support, if darker, than the promise of a season up or the threat of a season down: the franchise itself. Clubs without top-level support lose their top-level franchise to some other city, for good. And cities that develop large support for minor-league franchises are rewarded with a permanent promotion to the majors. That's one reason professional sports thrive in America: promotion and relegation are determined by the support, not the victories and losses. That keeps the largest stadiums full and benefits every club and fan.
Here's an idea: maintain promotion and relegation in English soccer, but base it on attendance, not points. Imagine the boost the sport would receive, on and off the pitch. Imagine how many parks large and small would fill and expand. Imagine the noise, the excitement. And imagine a world in which the best fans in the league - Newcastle's fans - would be rewarded with top-flight entertainment every season. Now that's something to play for.
This is so utterly wrong in so many ways.
Posted by: Nathan | 10/21/2011 at 10:10 AM
The man obviously knows nothing about football (Soccer to him) has he ever been in a game at the last day of the season and see the faces of fans from 5 years old to 85 years old, football is more than a game and the emotions created during relegation battles are difficult to understand, unless you are a Geordie!!
I have been to a baseball game out of curiosity and most people are enjoying their popcorns and hot dogs more the action.
Posted by: Vassilis Koukoulis | 10/21/2011 at 10:20 AM
I can't agree with this. The devastation of relegation is something I will never forget. The spectrum of emotions at Villa Park was just about tangiable. You could feel the delight when news filtered through about the Hull game anf that obviously turned to despair when the ball nestled in the Villa goal off Damien Duff's arse.
Plus without relegation from the Premier League how will teams from the Championship thrive? Promotion from that league to the Holy land of the Premier League is something that fans in the Championship all aim for.
Imagine too that you are, for example a Fulham fan. You'll never match the Arsenal gates, not with the Gunners, Spurs, Chelsea, QPR, Millwall, West Ham, Crystal Palace and Charlton all being located in the same city. But you've played well enough to get into the Europa league. However due to crazy "attendance" franchise laws you get thrown out of the Premier League so that a club in, say Nottingham, Sheffield or an MK Dons type franchise can take your place. How is that fair?
Promotion and relegation are necessary. They mean that clubs that aren't fortunate enough to be bankrolled by a Russian Oil Tycoon or Sheik Maboody have something to play for in the leagues.
Posted by: Blef | 10/21/2011 at 10:34 AM
This is one of the worst articles I've ever read, and that's coming from a Newcastle fan. If you're so keen on the way US sports operate stick to them instead. A place in the top league is and should be won and retained on footballing merit alone. Your argument makes no sense, how many fans would attend matches of currently lower league sides with premier pedigree and even success with no chance of them returning to the top tier (Leeds, Birmingham, Middlesborough, West Ham, Southampton, Charlton, Sheffields, Nottingham, Palace, Watford, Pompey, Hull, Burnley, Blackpool etc.)? Who gets excluded? If Blackburn are unfortunate enough to drop this season should they not be allowed to come back up? They've won the prem ffs. As for relegation based on attendance, sheesh!! While The Toon are lucky enough to enjoy big crowds, some clubs are much closer to other competitor teams. How many US cities have 2,3,4,5 big teams like the biggest uk cities? How much does it cost to attend a baseball game? Just because some crowds are smaller than us it doesn't mean that they don't have loyal, passionate and deserving fans. When we were relegated we deserved to be, when we were promoted we deserved to be, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Even thinking of scrapping relegation is just another example of the negative impact of money and greed in football. Why don't you mention all the leading lights in the game who have come out and lambasted the idea? Kindly give the matter more thought, and until you do stop associating your nonsense with NUFC. Grrr
Posted by: ToonArmyPaul | 10/21/2011 at 10:36 AM
I'm an American and i love the promotion/relegation. the american way of franchising is terrible. look at the florida marlins...They are located in miami one of the biggest metro areas in the country. they get about 5000 fans every game in a stadium that holds >35k, yet they are still in the top league. relegation/promotion keeps the hope of smaller club's potential rise to glory, or an indication that a club needs to restructure their front office.
who's to decide which clubs stay in the PL and which get stuck in the Championship? If West Ham gets 30 wins perennially in the championship but has a less than average attendance record, does that mean they shouldnt be rewarded with promotion? it keeps teams from throwing games in order to get a better draft position (cough NFL cough).
Posted by: Jaeger | 10/21/2011 at 10:38 AM
I'm an American, and I think that franchise moves in the US have a lot more to do with the ability of team owners to exort arenas from taxpayers than from fan support for teams, and I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that minor league success is somehow a prerequisite for a city getting a team.
Posted by: Andrew | 10/21/2011 at 10:51 AM
I normally consider this one of the better NUFC blogs on the net, but I'm sorry, this is absolutely ridiculous, especially the idea of basing promotion and relegation on attendances, rather than on the performance of the players - seemingly for little reason other than "well at least that way we won't get relegated ever again". With a system like that, why would owners bother to invest in the teams? If it doesn't matter how well they play, why would the likes of Mike Ashley (to use NUFC as an example), an already stingy owner, bother to ever sign anyone who could improve the squad? And as the relegation from and promotion to the Premiership would be based on attendances, then surely, as performances no longer count, we can just award the title to Manchester United every single year until somebody builds a bigger stadium.
I would rather run the gambit of emotions of a relegation battle (hopefully successfully) again than be told "well you finished 8th in the league but you were in the bottom three in attendance, so enjoy the Championship!".
Absolutely ridiculous.
Posted by: Mr. B | 10/21/2011 at 10:51 AM
Good blog normally mate but no, just no.
Posted by: Jeff Leopard | 10/21/2011 at 10:53 AM
Keep relegation and promotion. Sorry Bob, but we are going to have to have a chat about this on Saturday at the pub.
Posted by: Rob Moyer | 10/21/2011 at 10:56 AM
Agree with the first comment - this is just wrong. "Maybe England is different" you say.... that's hit the nail on the head. There is a pyramid system throughout English Football. 650 Clubs enter the FA Cup.
Sporting merit is the one constant which dictates where a Club plays - size of crowds etc has no bearing at all on the Division. Sporting merit allows relative minnows to grow and to challenge at the very top. Regrettably, this is consistent with an American predeliction for status quo, not for change. That's why you have no sense of History as a nation. As the football song goes ... "where were you when you were crap?".
An essential part of football is the highs and lows. Do you stil have draws over there or shootouts? Is that a clue...? The rest of the world thinks one way, USA thinks differently?
Please stay away from Newcastle websites. Plesae don't compare baseball to football.
Hadaway man, and loss yerself.
Posted by: Jarrow Mag | 10/21/2011 at 11:03 AM
As an American and a relatively new fan to UK football, I'm still adapting to the relegation/promotion system. I, however, completely disagree with the attendance suggestion for reasons more eloquently stated above by prior commenters. I think relegation/promotion is an absolutely brilliant way to keep interest all season long and should be based solely on merits on the pitch. However, what is missing for me in the current Premier League structure is the competitive balance from the table top-down. I haven't thought about it long enough to suggest how this might work, but if there were some way to blend the relegation/promotion system with a salary cap structure similar to the NFL's (where parity rules), it would be the best of both worlds. Clubs would now have two goals at the beginning of each season: Top of the table & prevent relegation. Right now, the vast majority of clubs can only claim one of those goals. It makes for some damn exciting football throughout the season, but it's a bit depressing when you take a broader view of what you're playing for.
Posted by: Gabardine | 10/21/2011 at 11:03 AM
Nothing like a little sacrilege to spice up a Friday! Keep the arguments coming; interesting to hear and take into account.
Posted by: Bob | 10/21/2011 at 11:11 AM
Sorry but it's all about the competition mate. Never wash over here.
Posted by: mijmo | 10/21/2011 at 11:19 AM
Let the record show that I totally disagree with my co-blogger on this one ...
Posted by: Tom | 10/21/2011 at 11:20 AM
As an American, I really love the promotion/relegation system. It's a refreshing change from the US sports systems that I have grown up with (I still watch my US sports too). I wish the MLS could have relegation/promotion, but the league won't be anywhere close to being able to pull that off for decades, if then.
The thing I like with the system is that every match matters, even against inferior opponents. Take a middling club for example. They can't challenge for a title. But if they don't have to worry about relegation, then some of the matches become almost meaningless. Even though last season was very frantic for NUFC fans at times when it looked like we may be relegated, it was also an adrenaline rush to me. It's like living life on the edge. Newcastle will always be my team. Even if that means me falling off a cliff with them (relegation), or climbing the mountain with them (promotion), that's all part of being of fan of NUFC.
Personally I love the system and hope it never leaves.
Posted by: Ryan | 10/21/2011 at 11:26 AM
Another thing you should bear in mind is the cleansing nature of the relegation. Yes some teams struggle in their return to the prem but just like our very own team relegation is a chance to change the squad and usually results in many mercenaries moving on. Do you think that if we managed to stay up against villa we would be half the team we are now, or have an ounce of the character we now show? We would have remained a stagnent club,limping along, living on life support.
Posted by: chris | 10/21/2011 at 12:09 PM
Haha, Chris, my co-blogger sent a similar argument up as a new post just as you were putting up your comment.
I'm most intrigued by the response by Blef above, which cites the devastation of relegation in support of keeping it. That hints what might be a basic difference between the psyche of an American fan and an English fan, and why the systems evolved the way they did in both places. I wonder if the average NFL fan would survive the pain of relegation, much less embrace it; the average American fan might mostly disappear and follow some other big-league club until the original club came back. Just as American fans were shocked this summer when Alan Pardew said in a press conference in Columbus that Newcastle was aspiring to a mere top-half finish, and not the title. We're a nation of front-runners in some ways.
As for Sheik Maboody, though, and with the changing global economy pounding at the doors of the league, I still wonder about the financial wisdom, for the whole sport, of putting clubs that can draw 50,000 in a lower league and clubs with a capacity of one-fourth that in the highest league. And whether that ultimately limits investment, foreign or domestic, by adding such a huge element of risk to the business. That's a reason to hope leagues in other countries don't go to franchising on their own, which might attract investors away.
Posted by: Bob | 10/21/2011 at 12:27 PM
As a Geordie living in the states, I can't disagree more with this. Relegation was a good thing for Newcastle (and football as a whole, to remind the "bigger" clubs that this can and does happen). We are an entirely different team to the lot that went down. The attendances are a result of a group of fans who are not happy with the way Mike Ashley is running the club, and will not continue to show up no matter what. Disproportionate spending is having a bad enough effect on the game. Relegation means this is not a risk-free investment - ask Venkey their thoughts on the matter at the end of the season.
And speaking of mediocrity, I live in Houston. Shall we mention the Astros season, and attendances for that matter? I have had the misfortune of attending an Astros game, and I found it to be utterly lacking passion. I would much rather go to an Aeros game (minor league hockey) where there is some passion.
The closest relation I find here to the supporter mentality is college football - kids support a school 'cos that's where there dad went. No matter where you are from or where you go in the country, you support your college team. I see people who support the Texans in the NFL, but when OU hammered UT you see who they really support.
I presume you'll suggest we introduce a draft system next?
Posted by: Mike | 10/21/2011 at 03:39 PM